If the numbers looked good, th

4
1
Favorite

If the numbers looked good, they would show them. Conversely, they're not showing the numbers because they look bad.

Nvidia, Microsoft, and OpenAI Have Investors Going in Circles. This Chart Shows How

Since Nvidia agreed last month to invest $100 billion in its customer OpenAI, investors and analysts who follow artificial intelligence have awakened to that industry’s circularity.

Nvidia, Microsoft, and OpenAI Have Investors Going in Circles. This Chart Shows How

Disclaimer: Investing carries risk. This is not financial advice. The above content should not be regarded as an offer, recommendation, or solicitation on acquiring or disposing of any financial products, any associated discussions, comments, or posts by author or other users should not be considered as such either. It is solely for general information purpose only, which does not consider your own investment objectives, financial situations or needs. TTM assumes no responsibility or warranty for the accuracy and completeness of the information, investors should do their own research and may seek professional advice before investing.

Report

Comment（1）

Top
Latest

khyronzz
·10-10
Its a game of poker, investors vs the house- you know the rest
Reply
Like
Report

Most Discussed

{"i18n":{"language":"en_US"},"data":{"magic":2,"id":487583677153728,"tweetId":"487583677153728","gmtCreate":1760069431748,"gmtModify":1760069435553,"author":{"id":4181780932310392,"idStr":"4181780932310392","authorId":4181780932310392,"authorIdStr":"4181780932310392","name":"Rainy777","avatar":"https://community-static.tradeup.com/news/default-avatar.jpg","vip":1,"userType":1,"introduction":"","boolIsFan":false,"boolIsHead":false,"crmLevel":11,"crmLevelSwitch":0,"individualDisplayBadges":[],"fanSize":20,"starInvestorFlag":false},"themes":[],"images":[],"coverImages":[],"html":"<html><head></head><body><p>If the numbers looked good, they would show them. Conversely, they're not showing the numbers because they look bad.</p></body></html>","htmlText":"<html><head></head><body><p>If the numbers looked good, they would show them. Conversely, they're not showing the numbers because they look bad.</p></body></html>","text":"If the numbers looked good, they would show them. Conversely, they're not showing the numbers because they look bad.","highlighted":1,"essential":1,"paper":1,"likeSize":4,"commentSize":1,"repostSize":1,"favoriteSize":0,"link":"https://ttm.financial/post/487583677153728","repostId":2574217197,"repostType":2,"repost":{"id":"2574217197","kind":"highlight","weMediaInfo":{"introduction":"Dow Jones publishes the world’s most trusted business news and financial information in a variety of media.","home_visible":0,"media_name":"Dow Jones","id":"106","head_image":"https://static.tigerbbs.com/150f88aa4d182df19190059f4a365e99"},"pubTimestamp":1760065200,"share":"https://ttm.financial/m/news/2574217197?lang=en_US&edition=fundamental","pubTime":"2025-10-10 11:00","market":"us","language":"en","title":"Nvidia, Microsoft, and OpenAI Have Investors Going in Circles. This Chart Shows How","url":"https://stock-news.laohu8.com/highlight/detail?id=2574217197","media":"Dow Jones","summary":"Since Nvidia agreed last month to invest $100 billion in its customer OpenAI, investors and analysts who follow artificial intelligence have awakened to that industry’s circularity.","content":"<html><head></head><body><p style=\"text-align: start;\">Since <a href=\"https://laohu8.com/S/NVDA\">Nvidia</a> agreed last month to invest $100 billion in its customer OpenAI, investors and analysts who follow artificial intelligence have awakened to that industry’s circularity.</p><p>Nvidia puts money into OpenAI. OpenAI and its data center partners buy chips from Nvidia. Other circles encompass <a href=\"https://laohu8.com/S/MSFT\">Microsoft</a>, <a href=\"https://laohu8.com/S/ORCL\">Oracle</a>, and the data center firm <a href=\"https://laohu8.com/S/CRWV\">CoreWeave</a><strong>.</strong></p><p>The circles remind some on Wall Street of the wash trades between venture capital-backed start-ups before the first internet bubble burst 20 years ago—or the guy who asks you to lend him a $20 bill so he can buy you a beer. AI skeptics are chortling.</p><p class=\"t-img-caption\"><img src=\"https://community-static.tradeup.com/news/a80e7095dd381f8e6e945cb31e912067\" tg-width=\"994\" tg-height=\"836\"/></p><p>Amid the scoffing, Morgan Stanley analyst Todd Castagno mapped the AI ecosystem’s circular flows in a Wednesday note. Just tracing the companies surrounding OpenAI makes a tangled picture.</p><p>Castagno and his colleagues are confident the AI deals among these companies are real. As Morgan Stanley’s lead accounting and valuation analyst, Castagno believes that clear reporting of these numbers is crucial for knowing AI’s real demand.</p><p style=\"text-align: start;\">Castagno pored over the financial filings of AI players—and concluded they need to disclose more about the nature of their interrelationships. “Increasingly complex transactions make it challenging to evaluate how demand for AI is developing and increase risk around AI’s success,” he wrote.</p><p style=\"text-align: start;\">“You need disclosure about how all this works,” Castagno told <em>Barron’s</em>. Microsoft has invested $13 billion in OpenAI. The companies share in each other’s revenues, which include sales to each other. Yet Microsoft hasn’t disclosed what portion is shared, or whether Microsoft nets its reported revenue numbers for those of OpenAI. When revenue flows both ways, gross sales numbers can give a false impression of AI demand, Castagno says.</p><p>Microsoft’s reporting on its OpenAI dealings are just a single line in a footnote table to its income statement.</p><p>Castagno suggests that Microsoft’s shareholders might deserve more detail. Citing Microsoft’s fast-rising backlog for its Azure AI web services, Morgan Stanley projects that all of Microsoft’s Azure AI growth in the June 2026 fiscal year will come from OpenAI—and exceed $20 billion.</p><p style=\"text-align: start;\">If Microsoft provided more clarity about its OpenAI accounts, the move would actually boost the multiple that investors give Microsoft stock, says Castagno.</p><p style=\"text-align: start;\">Microsoft said it accounts for transactions with OpenAI in the same way as with other companies. OpenAI is private and owes no public disclosure. OpenAI did not immediately respond to a request for comment.</p><p style=\"text-align: start;\">Circular money flows similarly connect other AI players. Nvidia sells chips to Oracle, which supplies data center capacity to Nvidia investee OpenAI. Oracle hasn’t broken out these growing money flows in its financials.</p><p style=\"text-align: start;\">Nvidia is also an investor in the AI data center operator CoreWeave, and is paying billions to CoreWeave for computing capacity. At the same time, CoreWeave will put more than half of its $20 billion-plus of capital spending this year into Nvidia hardware, Morgan Stanley estimates.</p><p>Oracle said it has disclosed as much detail as it needs to. CoreWeave didn’t answer <em>Barron’s</em> accounting questions. Asked on CNBC Wednesday about Nvidia’s investments in its customers, the AI chipmaker’s CEO Jensen Huang said that AI software and data centers are great, once-in-a-generation investment opportunities.</p><p style=\"text-align: start;\">Accounting questions might seem strategically trivial to AI company CEOs and investors. But if AI is making us rich, it would be nice to know by how much.</p></body></html>","collect":0,"html":"<!DOCTYPE html>\n<html>\n<head>\n<meta http-equiv=\"Content-Type\" content=\"text/html; charset=utf-8\" />\n<meta name=\"viewport\" content=\"width=device-width,initial-scale=1.0,minimum-scale=1.0,maximum-scale=1.0,user-scalable=no\"/>\n<meta name=\"format-detection\" content=\"telephone=no,email=no,address=no\" />\n<title>Nvidia, Microsoft, and OpenAI Have Investors Going in Circles. This Chart Shows How</title>\n<style type=\"text/css\">\na,abbr,acronym,address,applet,article,aside,audio,b,big,blockquote,body,canvas,caption,center,cite,code,dd,del,details,dfn,div,dl,dt,\nem,embed,fieldset,figcaption,figure,footer,form,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6,header,hgroup,html,i,iframe,img,ins,kbd,label,legend,li,mark,menu,nav,\nobject,ol,output,p,pre,q,ruby,s,samp,section,small,span,strike,strong,sub,summary,sup,table,tbody,td,tfoot,th,thead,time,tr,tt,u,ul,var,video{ font:inherit;margin:0;padding:0;vertical-align:baseline;border:0 }\nbody{ font-size:16px; line-height:1.5; color:#999; background:transparent; }\n.wrapper{ overflow:hidden;word-break:break-all;padding:10px; }\nh1,h2{ font-weight:normal; line-height:1.35; margin-bottom:.6em; }\nh3,h4,h5,h6{ line-height:1.35; margin-bottom:1em; }\nh1{ font-size:24px; }\nh2{ font-size:20px; }\nh3{ font-size:18px; }\nh4{ font-size:16px; }\nh5{ font-size:14px; }\nh6{ font-size:12px; }\np,ul,ol,blockquote,dl,table{ margin:1.2em 0; }\nul,ol{ margin-left:2em; }\nul{ list-style:disc; }\nol{ list-style:decimal; }\nli,li p{ margin:10px 0;}\nimg{ max-width:100%;display:block;margin:0 auto 1em; }\nblockquote{ color:#B5B2B1; border-left:3px solid #aaa; padding:1em; }\nstrong,b{font-weight:bold;}\nem,i{font-style:italic;}\ntable{ width:100%;border-collapse:collapse;border-spacing:1px;margin:1em 0;font-size:.9em; }\nth,td{ padding:5px;text-align:left;border:1px solid #aaa; }\nth{ font-weight:bold;background:#5d5d5d; }\n.symbol-link{font-weight:bold;}\n/* header{ border-bottom:1px solid #494756; } */\n.title{ margin:0 0 8px;line-height:1.3;color:#ddd; }\n.meta {color:#5e5c6d;font-size:13px;margin:0 0 .5em; }\na{text-decoration:none; color:#2a4b87;}\n.meta .head { display: inline-block; overflow: hidden}\n.head .h-thumb { width: 30px; height: 30px; margin: 0; padding: 0; border-radius: 50%; float: left;}\n.head .h-content { margin: 0; padding: 0 0 0 9px; float: left;}\n.head .h-name {font-size: 13px; color: #eee; margin: 0;}\n.head .h-time {font-size: 11px; color: #7E829C; margin: 0;line-height: 11px;}\n.small {font-size: 12.5px; display: inline-block; transform: scale(0.9); -webkit-transform: scale(0.9); transform-origin: left; -webkit-transform-origin: left;}\n.smaller {font-size: 12.5px; display: inline-block; transform: scale(0.8); -webkit-transform: scale(0.8); transform-origin: left; -webkit-transform-origin: left;}\n.bt-text {font-size: 12px;margin: 1.5em 0 0 0}\n.bt-text p {margin: 0}\n</style>\n</head>\n<body>\n<div class=\"wrapper\">\n<header>\n<h2 class=\"title\">\nNvidia, Microsoft, and OpenAI Have Investors Going in Circles. This Chart Shows How\n</h2>\n\n<h4 class=\"meta\">\n\n\n<div class=\"head\" \">\n\n\n<div class=\"h-thumb\" style=\"background-image:url(https://static.tigerbbs.com/150f88aa4d182df19190059f4a365e99);background-size:cover;\"></div>\n\n<div class=\"h-content\">\n<p class=\"h-name\">Dow Jones </p>\n<p class=\"h-time\">2025-10-10 11:00</p>\n</div>\n\n</div>\n\n\n</h4>\n\n</header>\n<article>\n<html><head></head><body><p style=\"text-align: start;\">Since <a href=\"https://laohu8.com/S/NVDA\">Nvidia</a> agreed last month to invest $100 billion in its customer OpenAI, investors and analysts who follow artificial intelligence have awakened to that industry’s circularity.</p><p>Nvidia puts money into OpenAI. OpenAI and its data center partners buy chips from Nvidia. Other circles encompass <a href=\"https://laohu8.com/S/MSFT\">Microsoft</a>, <a href=\"https://laohu8.com/S/ORCL\">Oracle</a>, and the data center firm <a href=\"https://laohu8.com/S/CRWV\">CoreWeave</a><strong>.</strong></p><p>The circles remind some on Wall Street of the wash trades between venture capital-backed start-ups before the first internet bubble burst 20 years ago—or the guy who asks you to lend him a $20 bill so he can buy you a beer. AI skeptics are chortling.</p><p class=\"t-img-caption\"><img src=\"https://community-static.tradeup.com/news/a80e7095dd381f8e6e945cb31e912067\" tg-width=\"994\" tg-height=\"836\"/></p><p>Amid the scoffing, Morgan Stanley analyst Todd Castagno mapped the AI ecosystem’s circular flows in a Wednesday note. Just tracing the companies surrounding OpenAI makes a tangled picture.</p><p>Castagno and his colleagues are confident the AI deals among these companies are real. As Morgan Stanley’s lead accounting and valuation analyst, Castagno believes that clear reporting of these numbers is crucial for knowing AI’s real demand.</p><p style=\"text-align: start;\">Castagno pored over the financial filings of AI players—and concluded they need to disclose more about the nature of their interrelationships. “Increasingly complex transactions make it challenging to evaluate how demand for AI is developing and increase risk around AI’s success,” he wrote.</p><p style=\"text-align: start;\">“You need disclosure about how all this works,” Castagno told <em>Barron’s</em>. Microsoft has invested $13 billion in OpenAI. The companies share in each other’s revenues, which include sales to each other. Yet Microsoft hasn’t disclosed what portion is shared, or whether Microsoft nets its reported revenue numbers for those of OpenAI. When revenue flows both ways, gross sales numbers can give a false impression of AI demand, Castagno says.</p><p>Microsoft’s reporting on its OpenAI dealings are just a single line in a footnote table to its income statement.</p><p>Castagno suggests that Microsoft’s shareholders might deserve more detail. Citing Microsoft’s fast-rising backlog for its Azure AI web services, Morgan Stanley projects that all of Microsoft’s Azure AI growth in the June 2026 fiscal year will come from OpenAI—and exceed $20 billion.</p><p style=\"text-align: start;\">If Microsoft provided more clarity about its OpenAI accounts, the move would actually boost the multiple that investors give Microsoft stock, says Castagno.</p><p style=\"text-align: start;\">Microsoft said it accounts for transactions with OpenAI in the same way as with other companies. OpenAI is private and owes no public disclosure. OpenAI did not immediately respond to a request for comment.</p><p style=\"text-align: start;\">Circular money flows similarly connect other AI players. Nvidia sells chips to Oracle, which supplies data center capacity to Nvidia investee OpenAI. Oracle hasn’t broken out these growing money flows in its financials.</p><p style=\"text-align: start;\">Nvidia is also an investor in the AI data center operator CoreWeave, and is paying billions to CoreWeave for computing capacity. At the same time, CoreWeave will put more than half of its $20 billion-plus of capital spending this year into Nvidia hardware, Morgan Stanley estimates.</p><p>Oracle said it has disclosed as much detail as it needs to. CoreWeave didn’t answer <em>Barron’s</em> accounting questions. Asked on CNBC Wednesday about Nvidia’s investments in its customers, the AI chipmaker’s CEO Jensen Huang said that AI software and data centers are great, once-in-a-generation investment opportunities.</p><p style=\"text-align: start;\">Accounting questions might seem strategically trivial to AI company CEOs and investors. But if AI is making us rich, it would be nice to know by how much.</p></body></html>\n\n</article>\n</div>\n</body>\n</html>\n","type":0,"thumbnail":"","relate_stocks":{"LU1914381329.SGD":"Allianz Best Styles Global Equity Cl ET Acc H2-SGD","BK4527":"明星科技股","LU2420271590.USD":"ALLIANZ SELECT INCOME AND GROWTH \"AT\" (USD) ACC","LU2357125470.USD":"BNP PARIBAS ENERGY TRANSITION \"CLASSIC RH\" (USDHDG) ACC","SG9999014914.USD":"UNITED GLOBAL QUALITY GROWTH (USDHDG) INC","LU0234570918.USD":"高盛全球核心股票组合Acc Close","LU0096362180.USD":"CT (LUX) I GLOBAL FOCUS \"DU\" (USD)","CRWV":"CoreWeave, Inc.","SG9999015341.SGD":"United Income Focus Trust Acc SGD-H","NVDA":"英伟达","LU0708994859.HKD":"TEMPLETON GLOBAL \"A\" (HKD) ACC","MSFT":"微软","LU2294711713.HKD":"BNP PARIBAS ENERGY TRANSITION \"C\" (HKD) ACC","BK4602":"量子计算概念","IE00BJTD4N35.SGD":"Neuberger Berman US Long Short Equity A1  Acc SGD-H","LU0080751232.USD":"富达环球多元动力基金A","IE00BFMHRM44.USD":"NEUBERGER BERMAN GLOBAL EQUITY MEGATRENDS \"A\" (USD) ACC","LU1242518857.USD":"FULLERTON LUX FUNDS - ASIA ABSOLUTE ALPHA \"I\" (USD) ACC","LU0098860793.USD":"FRANKLIN INCOME \"A\" INC","LU2860962120.EUR":"CPR INVEST - ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE \"A2\" (EUR) ACC A","LU1880398554.USD":"AMUNDI FUNDS GLOBAL EQUITY \"A2\" (USD) INC","LU1221951046.USD":"NORDEA 1 STABLE RETURN \"HM\" (USDHDG) INC","ORCL":"甲骨文","BK4598":"佩洛西持仓","LU1868837300.USD":"CT (LUX) I AMERICAN FUND \"9\" (USD) ACC","SG9999015986.USD":"LIONGLOBAL DISRUPTIVE INNOVATION \"I\" (USD) ACC","BK4525":"远程办公概念","BK4561":"索罗斯持仓","LU0061474960.USD":"天利环球焦点基金AU Acc","LU1823568750.SGD":"Fidelity Global Technology A-ACC SGD","LU1868836914.USD":"CT (LUX) I AMERICAN \"3\" (USD) ACC"},"source_url":"https://dowjonesnews.com/newdjn/logon.aspx?AL=N","is_english":true,"share_image_url":"https://static.laohu8.com/e9f99090a1c2ed51c021029395664489","article_id":"2574217197","content_text":"Since Nvidia agreed last month to invest $100 billion in its customer OpenAI, investors and analysts who follow artificial intelligence have awakened to that industry’s circularity.Nvidia puts money into OpenAI. OpenAI and its data center partners buy chips from Nvidia. Other circles encompass Microsoft, Oracle, and the data center firm CoreWeave.The circles remind some on Wall Street of the wash trades between venture capital-backed start-ups before the first internet bubble burst 20 years ago—or the guy who asks you to lend him a $20 bill so he can buy you a beer. AI skeptics are chortling.Amid the scoffing, Morgan Stanley analyst Todd Castagno mapped the AI ecosystem’s circular flows in a Wednesday note. Just tracing the companies surrounding OpenAI makes a tangled picture.Castagno and his colleagues are confident the AI deals among these companies are real. As Morgan Stanley’s lead accounting and valuation analyst, Castagno believes that clear reporting of these numbers is crucial for knowing AI’s real demand.Castagno pored over the financial filings of AI players—and concluded they need to disclose more about the nature of their interrelationships. “Increasingly complex transactions make it challenging to evaluate how demand for AI is developing and increase risk around AI’s success,” he wrote.“You need disclosure about how all this works,” Castagno told Barron’s. Microsoft has invested $13 billion in OpenAI. The companies share in each other’s revenues, which include sales to each other. Yet Microsoft hasn’t disclosed what portion is shared, or whether Microsoft nets its reported revenue numbers for those of OpenAI. When revenue flows both ways, gross sales numbers can give a false impression of AI demand, Castagno says.Microsoft’s reporting on its OpenAI dealings are just a single line in a footnote table to its income statement.Castagno suggests that Microsoft’s shareholders might deserve more detail. Citing Microsoft’s fast-rising backlog for its Azure AI web services, Morgan Stanley projects that all of Microsoft’s Azure AI growth in the June 2026 fiscal year will come from OpenAI—and exceed $20 billion.If Microsoft provided more clarity about its OpenAI accounts, the move would actually boost the multiple that investors give Microsoft stock, says Castagno.Microsoft said it accounts for transactions with OpenAI in the same way as with other companies. OpenAI is private and owes no public disclosure. OpenAI did not immediately respond to a request for comment.Circular money flows similarly connect other AI players. Nvidia sells chips to Oracle, which supplies data center capacity to Nvidia investee OpenAI. Oracle hasn’t broken out these growing money flows in its financials.Nvidia is also an investor in the AI data center operator CoreWeave, and is paying billions to CoreWeave for computing capacity. At the same time, CoreWeave will put more than half of its $20 billion-plus of capital spending this year into Nvidia hardware, Morgan Stanley estimates.Oracle said it has disclosed as much detail as it needs to. CoreWeave didn’t answer Barron’s accounting questions. Asked on CNBC Wednesday about Nvidia’s investments in its customers, the AI chipmaker’s CEO Jensen Huang said that AI software and data centers are great, once-in-a-generation investment opportunities.Accounting questions might seem strategically trivial to AI company CEOs and investors. But if AI is making us rich, it would be nice to know by how much.","news_type":1,"symbols_score_info":{"ORCL":1.1,"MSFT":1.1,"NVDA":1.1,"CRWV":1.1}},"isVote":1,"tweetType":1,"viewCount":690,"commentLimit":10,"likeStatus":false,"favoriteStatus":false,"reportStatus":false,"symbols":[],"verified":2,"subType":0,"readableState":1,"langContent":"EN","currentLanguage":"EN","warmUpFlag":false,"orderFlag":false,"shareable":true,"causeOfNotShareable":"","featuresForAnalytics":[],"commentAndTweetFlag":false,"andRepostAutoSelectedFlag":false,"upFlag":false,"length":98,"optionInvolvedFlag":false,"xxTargetLangEnum":"ORIG"},"commentList":[{"id":487585116270984,"commentId":"487585116270984","gmtCreate":1760069861635,"gmtModify":1760069866240,"authorId":3562563344155069,"author":{"id":3562563344155069,"idStr":"3562563344155069","authorId":3562563344155069,"name":"khyronzz","avatar":"https://static.tigerbbs.com/fb326652281090af1569012e9cbb84dc","vip":1,"crmLevel":12,"crmLevelSwitch":0,"individualDisplayBadges":[]},"repliedAuthorId":0,"objectId":487583677153728,"objectIdStr":"487583677153728","type":1,"supId":0,"supIdStr":"0","prevId":0,"prevIdStr":"0","content":"Its a game of poker, investors vs the house- you know the rest","text":"Its a game of poker, investors vs the house- you know the rest","html":"Its a game of poker, investors vs the house- you know the rest","likeSize":0,"commentSize":0,"subComments":[],"verified":10,"allocateAmount":0,"commentType":"valid","coins":0,"score":0,"disclaimerType":0}],"hasMoreComment":true,"orderType":2}